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Game Changer – Trade Addiction

There’s been some big changes announced so far this season. Griff & Anthony take you through them all, including the recently announced two trades per week, with a special feature from Cousins Coke n Ice. How ill you use our two trades, and is it now too easy?


Morning all! Griff & Anthony here, and in case you have been living under a rock, or you know, just haven’t checked social media or your inbox today, the AFL have released further information on the 2013 set up of AFL Dream Team. And boy is it a game changer. Well, one aspect is.

Firstly, this season there WILL NOT be a rolling lock-out in place, so just like years previous, you have until the first bounce on Friday night (or whenever the first game of the round is) to finalize your trades. After this you will be locked out, and your team will be set. Put simply, it hasn’t changed.
Note: This runs against the AFL’s main fantasy rival in SuperCoach, who WILL have a rolling lock-out.

Secondly, and this is the big one, AFL Dream Team will allow coaches to make two trades every week of the season. Unlike years previously where we had a total number of trades to work with, in 2013 we will have a guaranteed two trades, every week, for a maximum of 44 trades over the season. The catch? If you don’t use a trade you lose it. You can’t go into round 10 with 40 trades remaining.
Note: For those struggling with the maths, we only get trades after round one. So it’s 22 x 2, not 23 x 2.

So what does this mean for the game, and why has this happened? One of Dream Team’s brightest has had a look what it all means. Presenting to you: Cousins Coke n Ice!


Trade Addiction

By Cousins Coke n Ice (aka @douthteez)

I’ve been playing Dream Team for 6 or 7 years now, and 2013 is shaping as one of the biggest in the history of the game.

There have been many changes, but probably the biggest change in the history of the game is the change from 24 trades for the year to 2 every week. Every week! That’s up to 44 Trades for the season. No more wondering if you should hold off using that vital trade, Go ahead, you will have another 2 to play with the next week!

The traditionalist inside me is screaming “Don’t fix what aint broke!” but alas, the more rationally I think about it, the more I understand that this isn’t just a game, it’s a business.

The reason the AFL would change Dream Team to this is obvious; it engages the non-die hards for longer. We all have mates that trade like rabid banshees and by round 12 or 13 they are out of trades and completely over the game. This is not good for the Dream Team business. You also don’t get to enjoy the taking of the PI 55 as much because the bloke you just beat doesn’t care any more! I don’t know about you, but I love rubbing it in when I have a win, and I get more enjoyment out of it when they actually care!

Whilst I used to love the anxiety that came with the “confirm trade” button, I’m all for the change as well.

Dream Team makes its money from advertising and sponsorship. If Virtual Sports can show increased page views etc, then they can charge more for this space. This is good in 2 ways. The first is that the game will grow from strength to strength on the back of upgraded infrastructure and other benefits from having more disposal cash for them to play with, and with a bit of luck, the extra money they start to make will filter down to the prizes! Imagine if one day we were playing Dream Team for $1 Million dollars! Or better yet, a prize for coming best in your state/territory? If this is where the game is heading, I can live with that!

You see, like a lot of you reading this, I suffer from CTSS. Constant Trade Stress Syndrome. If I’m not trading, I’m thinking about trading, and now I don’t have to worry about running out anymore!

The Guns and Rooks strategy just got a whole lot easier also. We make our money by buying low and selling high. Most coaches would not burn a single trade until round 3 or 4 right before the prices changed for the first time. Now you will be able to ensure you have at least 6 of the hottest bubbling rooks you can get your hands on before the price rise. This means we will be able to “complete” our teams even faster than we did in previous years!

You can now also play returning from injury stars with a bit more ease. If they re-do their knee, BOOM, you just use one of your two available trades! May as well, you get two more next week! Then there are the “never agains”. You can afford to give your Shaun Higgins’ and Greg Broughton’s of this world another go knowing that without any fear of burning a trade you needed for finals, you have 44 of them! No big deal!

There will be many saying that the 2 trades per week is a bad idea; the traditionalists out there. I say embrace it, this game is only going to get better! Change is always inevitable, use it to your advantage!


Additionally, to recap some of the other changes;
  • Our team set up has changed to six defenders, eight midfielders, two ruckmen and six forwards. Which differs from our past set up by taking away one forward and defender and replacing them with two more midfielders.
  • Also we will be able to select 4 Emergencies as opposed to 3 in seasons past. So no more sacrificing the Rucks and hoping for the best.
  • The MBR’s will be scored differently this year by taking your best 18 players scores regardless of position.
  • There will be No Rolling Lockout for AFL Fantasy this year. So once your teams are set Friday they are locked in for the best.
  • The GreenRed and Yellow status dots will be returning from behind the assistant coach paywall! These are the dots that appear after teams are announced, letting you know if your players are expected to play that week. Very helpful for the quick glance at your team before lockout!

So that’s the update. Let us know what you think in the comments below, and feel free to continue the conversation with us (Griff & Anthony) on twitter.

Happy dreaming!





  1. Avatar


    January 12, 2013 at 8:52 pm

    Quick question for Warnie et al the DT Talk founders and gurus: just wondering if you guys were consulted personally on the new changes? I mean apart from via twitter and opinion pieces etc?

    I understand you guys will support any changes as it is in your best interest as THE place for all that is AFL Dream Team (should replace Dr. DT in my view) – guess I’m just curious to know if you had a bit of an inkling as to the changes or if it was completely news to you.

    For what it’s worth, I’ll be involved again this year regardless and with my own cricket team struggling I can’t wait for round one. As for all this talk about the almighty dollar (al-ighty-ollar, hehe I get it) well yeah, VS, the AFL and Dream Team etc is in business after all.

    P.S. Griff – good on you for sticking your neck out there. Look forward to more ‘Open Letters’ this year.

    • Warnie


      January 12, 2013 at 8:56 pm

      I had no idea. I was under the assumption it was going to be what was posted at the start of December. Woke up on my first day back in Australia and thought… what the f**k!

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        January 12, 2013 at 10:32 pm

        Must say i feel sorry for you guys (dttalk) you didnt make the new rules and people are going nuts at you for having an opinion. Anyway i dont really like it because im stuck in my ways .. but ill give it a go

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    January 12, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    At least if they said the new rule is f**ked I would feel like I’m getting a real opinion. Instead we are fed this virtual sport propaganda and told that we should like it. Well I don’t like it. Im never going to like it. Nor am I ruled by dollars or any interest group or business. Who knows maybe virtual sports will look at the reactions in forums like this and think long and hard about what they are doing. As far as I’m concerned they can shove their 44 trades up their slimy well lubricated asses. I’m playing sc only next year and I hope others vote with their feet aswell.

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      January 13, 2013 at 9:00 am


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    Paul F

    January 12, 2013 at 9:37 pm

    Fark some of you need to take a deep breathe!!!! It must be human instinct to be averse to change! I know I still feel uneasy about the changes and at the moment I’d say I don’t really like them but that’s only because I like most of the people on here am someone who puts far to much time into research of my intitial team.The obvious thing that it makes easier will be getting in the right rookies but overal I don’t think it will make being competitive any easier just different.

    I think you’ll find though that while a lot of the top teams will come closer together the guy with no real idea of how to play will still use there trades in a sideways fashion rather than to improve there team.

    As Warnie said it’s a different game now just with the same scoring. So the tactics change, once you get your head around that idea that you have to be agressive with your trades, maybe trade out a premium just for a week or two purely because he’s coming up against a side he doesn’t like, bring in a Stanton because he’s got a hot streak going on then cut him the minute he gets cold you’ll get back into it. After all Daniel son didn’t want to move to Cali but after a few ass whoopings he ended up meeting a wicked old dude in Miagi, getting some sweet wheels and hooking up with a blondie!

    As I said boys take a deep breathe and look at it as a different challenge rather than the end of the world. The only thing that really gripes me is still just dishing out 1 car and $1000 dollars a week, give a few more of us a decent reason other than to pass the time a reason to play!

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      January 12, 2013 at 10:28 pm

      For the number of prospecti and Assistant Coach sales – maybe there should be lucky draw prize for those who make a trade in the last three weeks of the season.

      That’s a sure way to keep a lot of people interested.

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    January 12, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    I just wanted to repost my earlier comment as it was being buried on the previous page. I still say, the comments from the DT crew need to be positive because after all it is a DT website. For all those who don’t agree and wish to have nothing to do with DT anymore it should be fair to say “we won’t be hearing from you again”.

    As much as I hate the new 44 trade rule, I am amazed at the vitriol being thrown at Griff, Warnie and the DT crew in general.
    This is by far the best website for getting FREE information on not only players but also strategies and “the do’s & dont’s” of Dream Team. The amount of time these guys put in so that we can learn something that we may not have previously been aware of is amazing. I may not always agree with some of the articles or player profiles but that is MY decision. The fact that they have gone to the trouble of doing this “for me and for you” is well and truly appreciated by me anyway.
    Whether they have any financial inducement (which I don’t believe they do other than assistant coach) is totally irrelevant imo. Everyone has had their say – most in the negative, some in favour of and if the DT crew believe it is beneficial to try to take a positive spin on this change – so be it.
    The alternative is – they all say (like many of you) “DT is now f**ked and we are not going to play it anymore either. As a result we have no interest any more in running this site and hence will shut it down next week”
    So for all of you who are bitching about the DT crew being positive, would you prefer the alternative???

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      January 13, 2013 at 9:51 pm

      you’re a champ mate

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    January 13, 2013 at 12:10 am

    First off I want to suggest that I am a realist and in that regard realise that winning the car was never going to happen for me anyway so I have no concerns in that area. Also I am a serial over trader who has rolled into finals the last two seasons with no trades left.

    So you would think I would be happy about the changes that have been made, but I’m not.

    The three things that I love most about dream team will not be the same:

    1: Research – The time you spend looking to find the right rookies and mid prices to gain an advantage from the start is now rather pointless as if a rookie or mid pricer takes off early you can just use a trade to get them in, it is no longer a decision of whether or not the gain is worth the loss of a trade as they now hold little value.

    So by the time rd 3 rolls around all sides are going to have a lot of the same rookies sitting on their benches. The reward for the research which gave you a great feeling when you nailed one little others had disappears. As well as the flip side that the anguish (which deep down all players love too) disappears, I remember a last minute trade to bring in Relton Roberts instead of Pods purely because the former was named for rd 1. That backfired badly and Relton spent more weeks on my bench than imagined waiting for his 3rd game to come, he has now been delisted and is in the AFL wilderness, but I will never forget him. In a 2013 season he would have been gone after rd 2 for Pod and never thought about again.

    The rookies on your bench that you carried for a long time waiting for them to play their 3rd game or even start playing will not be there anymore as they will just be traded for a rookie going well.

    The risk vs reward is taken away, the main reason to research hard and find the right rookies was knowing that you could find one that everyone else would have to burn a trade to get onto, or punting on a mid pricer risking the fact that they may well fail, now you can do it and trade down to a rookie going well with no loss.

    2. League (Trade strategies) – In our league there was always a good mix of different ways people went about it, there were some that saved up trades and made two a week later on trying to sneak into the 8 with the form side of the competition, there were some who traded hard early to make sure they would have a spot in the final 8 (at the risk of having none for finals) and others that played it fairly evenly using them all the way through the season.

    When we get to finals at the end of next season we know everyone has the same trades left, a lot of finals games came down to the person who had saved their trades having the option to change someone compared to the guy who went too early relying on the squad he had to get him over the line.

    Again the risk vs reward that made the game interesting for the entire season is gone. I for one enjoyed completing my side early at the risk of no trades and enjoying the ride I had afterwards. And I know the blokes who traded conservatively will be more annoyed than I am. For them being able to restrain themselves even though there was a big urge to fix something in their team is rewarding, now there is no reason not to just make the trade.

    3. Trade mulling – Hours spent a week deciding whether someone like Greg Broughton should be traded out knowing that if you did it he would probably come good and there was no way you would ever consider trading him out to trade him back in as trades held so much value in the outcome of your season. Next season if the same thing happens again look for him to be the top guy being traded out on AC.

    So pretty much by devaluing a trade, they have taken out the risk/reward factor which in my opinion is what made the game so enthralling. The fun was the rollercoaster both the ups and downs, a lot of the downs will be fixed by having so many trades but to me this will make the game ultimately more boring.

    The more difficult it is to get right the more rewarding it is when you do it.

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    January 13, 2013 at 4:47 am

    I’m shocked at the negativity on this page. Admittedly I was a pretty happy trader last year, I think that was the way you had to go to have a shot at the car, but I think this change is for the best. I certainly think the amount of skill needed to be competitive has drastically increased.

    With 24 trades, ala 2012, the amount of choices available were rather limited. There were enough no-brainer rookie downgrades (Treloar, Zorko, Gibson, etc) and injuries which meant everyone was forced into the same trades. How many creative trading choices did anyone really make last year? With all these extra trades creativity and ingenuity will be rewarded more richly. It also annoyed me that you were stuck with premiums for the year unless they got injured. I got sick of some of those players and will be happy to move them on this year. The scope for making decisions will be much larger. I look forward to making ~20 trading choices that are not forced, but simply to maximize value.

    Does it diminish the value of picking a good starting side? Maybe a little. However, I don’t think this is such a bad thing. It means that a few shocking picks doesn’t put you out of it completely, while still rewarding the people that pick the right rookies. I don’t like the argument that some people have been chirping on here of “rookie research is irrelevant because everyone will just get the best rookies after Round 2.” While people will get the obvious bolters, if you already have them then you can use those trades to improve your team in finer ways. The pick I was happiest last year was starting with Toby Greene, but I wasn’t super angry a lot of people got him after Round 2. Instead, it just gave me more of an opportunity to do other things. The more good players you pick the better off you will be.

    Now, as for the rest of the season. Before the byes we will still have some tough decisions. If SJ gets a 1 due to concussion, but is named to play the next week, at the same time that a couple of rookies are ripe for the picking what do you do with those 2 trades? That seems far from an easy dilemma. To be successful through this period I plan to mirror what I did last year and plan out trades at least 3-4 weeks in advance so I know where I’m headed. Obviously things can change, but you don’t want to run into a dead end week. Any such planning will give serious players an insurmountable advantage over any casual players. The goal here will be to get to a side with premiums everywhere on the ground as soon as possible.

    The byes themselves will be a whole different challenge this year. No-one should get any donuts (well everyone will sort of get 4 enforced donuts per week), but there is still huge ground to be made by advanced thinking.

    Finally, the period post-byes will have its own challenges. Everyone should have teams of premiums, but getting the right players each week will be a new skill that has to be learnt. This will end up winning someone a car. Even if you play someone who has 16-18 of your players, those last 4-6 will be key. Games will be closer, but not necessarily worse.

    On the whole, the number of real decisions that need to be made will be increased, which can only make the game harder. Everyone who says “I always beat my mates because I saved trades better than them” needs to embrace the change and develop new skills. Evolve or die.

    • Avatar


      January 13, 2013 at 6:44 am

      + 1

      Excellent write up !

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      gruff griffo

      January 13, 2013 at 8:13 am

      Very well written and very well said……


    • Warnie


      January 13, 2013 at 8:34 am

      Hammer. Nail. Head.

      Great post. I’m looking forward to the challenge. DT has been played the same way by me for 10 years. I don’t want to say its ‘stale’ but the new changes will freshen it up a lot! Like I’ve said on Twittwr I’m still undecided on stage two trades per week but one thing is for sure, I’m looking forward to the new challenge.

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      January 13, 2013 at 10:46 am

      Well thought out and brilliantly written as always.

      Adapt or perish.

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      January 13, 2013 at 10:49 am

      “I don’t like the argument that some people have been chirping on here of “rookie research is irrelevant because everyone will just get the best rookies after Round 2.” While people will get the obvious bolters, if you already have them then you can use those trades to improve your team in finer ways.”

      Finer ways. by round 2? Sure, possible, but lets not value finer improvements on the the same scasle as dramitic improvements. Most likely, all gun rookies will be in most teams, period.

      “The byes themselves will be a whole different challenge this year. No-one should get any donuts”

      Ok, so the byes are a challenge yet no one should get any donuts, thats a hell of a challenge :)

      “On the whole, the number of real decisions that need to be made will be increased, which can only make the game harder.”

      Look, providing more options does not make the game harder, neither does making more decisions. Its the quality of the decision that matters, with fewer trades the quality of your decision making becomes crucial, thats what it was all about.
      You people seem somewhat confused, more trades means more options, means more decisions, means a harder game, yet fundermentally we all know that more trades makes an easier game, stop with the BS.

      I am not suggesting that more trades does not create issues which may be critical to resolve, yet these very same issues are merely created by adding the number of trades to the pile. Of course all will “embrace” change, they have no choice. But lets stop with oooh this game is gonna be so hard cause we have 44 trades garbage, how hard is it going to be when they increase it to 66 in 2 years, and they will :)

      • Avatar


        January 13, 2013 at 12:29 pm

        Well said, BJ.

        I’m sure the wildcard week, were everyone gets a week of unlimited trades isn’t far behind, because you don’t want people to give up just because they picked a shithouse team and can’t fix it quickly enough with 2 trades and of course it’s a huge disaster for everyone if leave the comp. And of course that would also be awesomely “challenging” for the rest of us, because we’d have even more choices available, which means more decisions to be made.

        See what’s happening here?

        • Avatar


          January 13, 2013 at 12:56 pm

          Thanks Strife, here’s how I see it;

          2 games very similar, in fact, with eliminator DT should have a slight edge.

          Yet DT is losing players, while SC is gaining players. odd situation in many ways.

          Solution to said issue – DUMB IT DOWN

          Perhaps this makes sense, after all our nations education averages are in decline, perhaps VS knows its markets :) Could work.

          And yet, here’s the thing, 2 similar games, one is growing, one is declining, I have to ask why? (in terms of final user numbers). Why are more people creating more round winning teams in SC, than DT as the year unfolds? This is ensuring a constant supply of hits to the SC site, I know not the numbers, but would love to see them. Its simple, one game is succeeding whilst one is failing, why?

          Why assume that players ranked @ 60001 are not going to lose interest even though they have trades left, of course most will lose interest, their year is finished.

          Dumb it down and hope for the best appears to be the solution. I am curious whether any thought was given as to why SC has become more popular, I would have thought that therein lies the answer. A couple of glaring differences come to mind immediately. Then again as I am apparently in horror of change, what would I know :)

          66 Trades in 2 – 3 years, is a very good chance.

      • Avatar


        January 14, 2013 at 12:26 am

        It’s clear we disagree on some things, but I’m happy to explain my position more:

        1. If you nail every good rookie than that’s great. However, I doubt anyone has ever had a Round 2 side that they are completely happy with. Just because the changes you will make won’t be as significant as dud rookie to gun rookie doesn’t mean that changing midpricers or something similar can’t put you ahead of those with an inferior starting side. Besides, everyone would (or at least should) have traded to get the gun rookies anyway. So the trade off is extra trades later versus team improvement now. As I said the new way probably rewards good starting teams less, but not by a huge amount.

        The flipside of this is that if you make some awful decisions or some risks don’t come off you can still catch up and be competitive, which has positives for good DTers as well.

        2. Just because there will be no donuts does not mean the byes will be a cake walk. Any team that is competitive will (or at least should) have 54 players playing over those 3 weeks. The challenge for everyone is to get as many premium scores in those 54 as possible. Now again, this won’t be as big a difference as last year during the byes, but it will certainly be significant in the context of the year. Assuming you have a team with 18 premiums pre-bye (just a guess) split 6-6-6, then with no trades that will give you 12 premium scores per week for a total of 36/54. Can you do better than that? I would hope so, but how much better?

        Another question which I’m not certain of is this.

        After Round 12 you have Swan, Ablett and Pendlebury sitting in your midfield as well as some rookies that are close to maturity. Do you get rid of 1 or 2 uber premiums, only to bring them back in later or trade the rookie to improve your side and maybe take a small hit that week.

        Byes will still pose a serious question for anyone hunting overall position, new system or not.

        3. 44 trades is a double edged sword in my opinion. Sure it’s easy to say that it makes the game easier so it’s bad, but I’m not convinced this is true. Certainly it makes it easier and more enjoyable for 10 minute a week DT hacks, but what about the serious players.

        Was DT really that hard with 20 or 24 trades? Once you get the point that you can’t trade all the time, then it became a pretty simple game really. You had to trade premiums with LTIs and downgrade/upgrade your rookies when they max out. Did anyone have many trades left after that? Not really. A lot of the difference in score came from captain choices and rookie bench picks, which will still be there.

        As for the new world of 44 trades, I believe it adds significant complexity. Sure there should be no-one with 4 donuts a week in your league, but isn’t that good. I’d much rather beat my mates 2500-2300 rather than 2300-1650 or something like that. What the extra trades mean is that you cannot coast and make easy choices, to be right up there overall will demand creativity in trading options. Whether that’s signing a midpricer to a 2 week deal to make a quick $60k or swapping midfield premiums based on matchups correctly time will tell. Also, this means that the race for the car (and other high placings) will go right down to the last week. Previously for the overall contenders, teams would be fairly set by about Rnd 13 and then it was basically waiting to see who wins. Now every week will be critical.

        So yes, my position is that 44 trades leads to more options which requires greater skill to negotiate well. I believe the level of skill needed to be in the top 50 this year is higher than ever.

        • Avatar


          January 14, 2013 at 9:20 pm

          Points articulated very well.

          I agree that there is a new level of complexity that 44 trades brings.

          People will sideways, change their structure to allow for greater cash generation, chase premos with better records against teams. Yet others, like me, will stick with the same basic principles around getting the best side on the park as quickly as possible.

          Who wins? Lets find out in September.

  7. Avatar


    January 13, 2013 at 10:38 am

    Just wanted to give a shout out to all the DTT contributors, to tbetta, griff, mcgrath, rainman, jimmybob, jeppa etc etc and especially to Warnie, Roy and Clavin, for all of your efforts in putting together a great website.

    Your site is the best thing on the DT landscape because it facilitates community, keeps it real and is very helpful for players of every level. I just wanted to say thankyou, and keep it up.

    There has been a lot of emotion over the changes, and it is all too much for some ppl. People have reacted strongly because they feel passionately about the game, and sometimes, about the community feel that you have facilitated. For those that have decided to put your chin up and make the best of it anyway, I’m sure we will survive.

    Anyway, thanks for making DT more fun than what it would be without you.

    • Avatar


      January 13, 2013 at 10:46 am

      Couldn’t agree more. Hope Griff has gotten over all the angst thrown at him yesterday.

      • Avatar


        January 13, 2013 at 11:04 am

        what angst? he uses “wiki” ffs to reference Goodwins law to a comment which supported a negative view that references Hitler as being the end of every argument. That was a brainstorm.

        The fact of the matter is some stakeholders have a pecuniary interest in dreamteam, that is to say we have part time employees/contractors of virtual sports posting there support of all new and wonderful without even providing a disclaimer as to their pecuniary incentive nor the fact that they are in fact employed in Some capacity by VS. (not you Griff, I understand).

        We then have an Admin member calling someone a “farkin clown” twice. How progressive Warnie, like every true progressive you start yelling and demeaning as soon as you are challenged, whilst at the same time preaching “tolerance” , unbelievable.

        How does it go, hammer, nail, head..whatever

        • Warnie


          January 13, 2013 at 11:28 am

          Here’s a response as that’s what you want.

          1. Referencing wiki on something like ‘Goodwins Law’ could not be any more appropriate. This isn’t a uni assignment.

          2. So when the rolling lockout was announced, I rolled over and supported that? If you have been following along – which you must be because you have a lot of opinions about how things should be run around here and with DT in general – there has been a lot of debate and I was hugely against the rolling lockout. I’m no puppet to Virtual Sports. We have a great relationship with them. They pay us to provide content. We don’t make decisions, but I’m sure they listen to things that are said. The debate about rule changes isn’t a new one. We have often made suggestions over our 7 years of DT Talk…. the new 6-8-2-6 team structure… well, I went to them about 5 years ago about that being the way things should go. That was taken up. Main point here is that I’ll support whatever I think is good for the game evolving and for our site to evolve too. I haven’t gone in and said that the new changes are awesome, but I’ve gone in with an approach that the glass can be half full – something a lot of short sighted people commenting don’t have a concept of.

          3. ‘Farkin Clown’ – yep I said that; twice. Sorry, I should be more professional. It is blog afterall. But it’s interesting how it’s ok for us to be flogged all around the place for having a differing opinion.

          At the end of the day, I want the game to evolve and I want more people playing and enjoying the game. Everything we do moves towards that… sorry if that isn’t transparent.

          • Avatar

            DT Tragic

            January 13, 2013 at 11:41 am

            Warnie, you should copy and paste this comment for all the haters, nothing else needs to be said.

            ‘At the end of the day, I want the game to evolve and I want more people playing and enjoying the game. Everything we do moves towards that… sorry if that isn’t transparent’

            I think this reflects perfectly all the work the DT Talk crew do on this website.

          • Avatar


            January 13, 2013 at 11:47 am

            1. Referencing wiki on something like ‘Goodwins Law’ could not be any more appropriate. This isn’t a uni assignment

            Referencing Goodwins law was deameaning and essentially a “throw away” line at a post that Griffin clearly could not infer the nuance of, it was not all about dreamteam.

            2. So support the change, thats fine, nobody is going to eat your lunch for that. Yet make your position clear, crystal clear, you have a financial interest and you are employed in some capacity by VS.
            Also, some times the glass is full. “Something a lot of short sighted people dont have a concept on.”

            3. Farkin clown, no really, it was reverting to common “name calling” when you are an admin/moderator of the site then suggesting you have been offended by same, you are somewhat confused. I do not see you as being flogged, you have been called out because you have financial interests in the “GAME”, because you are a employee of VS, becasue that MAY bias your own views.

            “At the end of the day, I want the game to evolve and I want more people playing and enjoying the game. Everything we do moves towards that… sorry if that isn’t transparent.”

            Thats a fair comment, and both you and this sites history clearly indicates that. However transparency is generally not a “glass half full or empty” situation, its being able to see all the facts and have faith that those that MAY have some influence in decisions are in fact acting in the interests of ALL, not some, you get my drift.

            Does this site have a moderator/admin code of conduct?

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            January 13, 2013 at 12:16 pm

            Feel better now, bj?

          • Avatar


            January 13, 2013 at 12:40 pm

            Its alright bj it’s not the first time warnie has reverted to name calling when someone has a differing opinion. Just glad someone else could see it wasn’t necessary. Like someone said earlier I simple honest answer like ‘ we don’t love the new rules but if it can create more money towards DT then that’s alright with me ooohhh yeah’. Would of been a better way to handle it rather than revert to shooting down anyone that has a differing opinion or name calling lol

          • Warnie


            January 13, 2013 at 1:04 pm

            Ok bj. We’ll agree to disagree on these rules. Sorry if you didn’t think we would have a vested interest in te game considering there are ads on our site. The site has evolved from just beig a hobby and now into something that gets us some pocket money. Our dream is to make it more than that. Surely all of that is pretty clear on the site? If not, my apologies.

            Recall… constant questioning over our integrity (in particular mine) from you – and no, this isn’t the first time you’ve taken delight out of belittling anything to do with our site and now we do things – does wear on me! Anyway, maybe I need some thicker skin and ignore your trolling.

            End of the day, you might hate it and leave the site and not play DT, but I’ll keep on keeping on!

          • Avatar


            January 13, 2013 at 1:19 pm

            Lol constant??? By the way I’m not trolling just as soon as someone disagrees with you it’s the end of the world. You do need thicker skin. The only other thing we had an issue with was that delightful article on picking a team on how good the player looks which was 12 months ago. Just goes to show you hold on to things a little to long.

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            January 14, 2013 at 12:26 pm

            Bloody hell BJ, you’re as bad as Hitler on the Jews.

        • Avatar


          January 13, 2013 at 12:59 pm

          If you don’t like the path the game has chosen bj (or anyone else for that matter), there are plenty of alternatives out there. No one is forcing you to play DT or enjoy the new rules. If you or anyone else do not enjoy the game anymore, then maybe stop coming to a blog about the game…no-one is forcing you to log into this site. If you or anyone else believe Warnie and co do such a poor job (which couldn’t be further from the truth, the product which doesn’t cost you a cent is fantastic and run by great people), why don’t you go and start up your own quality site and prove just how easy it is to run a quality site about Dream Team?

          • Avatar


            January 13, 2013 at 1:10 pm

            Is this not a discussion? Is this not a forum of views?

            Let me correct you, please, my pleasure.

            As you dont agree with said changes and have questioned the ethics of some site admin could you please go away. On this site we share only 1 view, that being that all is great and wonderful. We do not wish to read differing views because that may suggest otherwise, and we dare not go there, critical thinking being such a drag.

            Fixed it for you mate :)

          • Avatar


            January 13, 2013 at 1:12 pm

            Ben, if you dont like what I write, use your option not to read it. Its not hard, and it even allows different perspectives to be aired in an open discussion. Just saying.

    • Avatar

      DT Tragic

      January 13, 2013 at 11:33 am


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      January 13, 2013 at 1:01 pm

      Matty, do you feel better :)

      Recall, I am not averse to strong arguments, there is nothing wrong with passion. However to call someone a “farking clown” and then whine about being flogged confuses the hell out of me.

      Most progressives adopt this mantra, preach tolerance then show little. Not usually Warnie though, we all have bad days.

      • Avatar


        January 13, 2013 at 9:14 pm

        All this whining crap u all go on with is becoming so boring… not a fan of some of the changes but time to move on…. instead of u lads wasting time on here defending ur comments and getting into others why not get onto Fan Footy or DT pickers and put time into ur side for the coming season?
        Im sure there are worst things to be called then farkin clown etc, get over it and harden the fark up who cares.. people get on here with there paragraph after paragraph of bullshit should be prepared to be called names…so what its not like u have name or picture behind ur alias to identify urself, dont be so precious… there are plenty of facebook DT sites about where u can identify urselves but many prefer to hide behind an alias and wouldnt come out with half the shit if we all knew who they were…
        I would rather be reading articles on players and strategies then worrying about all this BS absolute gets no one anywhere just back and forward like a game of tennis, very boring….
        No doubt i will cop crap for writing this but do i care just all so boring….I will identify myself if u like and we can have a good old banter on facebook if u want.. no need for grammar nazi police to have a crack either, i know this is not written that well but gets my point across and if u dont like it well maybe should and give urself a BJ as the name suggests above hahaha…. time to accept the new rules and go and play with my side, much more fun…..or if i dont like it i can pull up my skirt and just play Supercoach….

        • Avatar


          January 13, 2013 at 9:21 pm

          Lol I couldn’t give a shit what name I was called. I would love to call warnie worse but we all know I would of been banned. That was more the point….

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          January 13, 2013 at 9:48 pm

          Always knew you were the cross dressing type Mal :)

          But seriously your right – time to move onto planning teams e.t.c

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          January 13, 2013 at 9:57 pm

          Mal, who care who you are, as for your grammar, I am sure its not your fault? Want to identify yourself and chat of facebook, why? To read more bad grammar :)

          SC has already won dear Mal, hence the game change, just to bring you to speed, could save you a week trying to figure that one out :)

          • Avatar


            January 14, 2013 at 5:36 am

            If Supercoach has won oh great one, then piss off to some of the SC forums around and stop being a arse clown on here……surely u must look back at some of ur rants and think geez i really am a f**ktard…

          • Avatar


            January 14, 2013 at 1:34 pm

            Mal, sweet Mal, U mad? LOL.

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            January 14, 2013 at 11:44 pm

            Please please can we cut the griefer loose?
            Coz that’s what it is now, just griefing. Stiring.
            Not really about an opinion, is it?

  8. Avatar


    January 13, 2013 at 11:54 am

    Hows this for a solution to keep everyone happy?

    2 use it or lose it trades every week
    Only a certain number of trades are ‘free’ (eg. 24)

    Any trades you make after your free trades have been used will cost you points (eg. 50 points per trade).

    The points will be deducted from your upcoming rounds score. This will mean that you won’t be able to get an unfair advantage in league matches and your chances of the overall prize will diminish with every trade you make.

    The best thing about this system is that it allows the “beginner” to trade every week but it encourages the ‘serious’ player to monitor their trades.


    • Avatar


      January 13, 2013 at 12:42 pm

      Great idea.

      Another option could be setting a limit on trades per league. Allow each player/profile the ability to have a team in an a 44 trades and a 24 trades league. Using the overall score of the 44 trades team for overall ranking but still giving those who want a 24 trade league the option to do so.

      A little bit more work, but could stop the tears of a few of the crying ‘veterans’

    • Avatar


      January 13, 2013 at 5:08 pm

      This is similar to how fantasy premier league runs (epl). You have a set amount of “free” trades you can use each week. If you use more, you get a set amount of points taken off your weekly score for that round.
      I really support this trading aspect as it keeps the serious players considering ‘is this trade worth those points’ and the beginners to trade like mad and still keep interest. I hope Dream Team adapts these rules in future years.

      • Avatar


        January 13, 2013 at 8:37 pm

        Just checked out the epl rules – What a great system!!!

        I would be amazed if something like this isn’t implemented in 2014.

        Here are the epl rules

        “After selecting your squad you can buy and sell players in the transfer market. Unlimited transfers can be made at no cost until your first deadline.

        After your first deadline you will receive 1 free transfer each Gameweek. Each additional transfer you make in the same Gameweek will deduct 4 points from your total score (Classic scoring) and match score (Head-to-Head scoring) at the start of the next Gameweek.

        If you do not use your free transfer, you are able to make an additional free transfer the following Gameweek. If you do not use this saved free transfer in the following Gameweek, it will be carried over until you do. You can never have more than 1 saved transfer.”

        • Avatar


          January 14, 2013 at 9:55 pm

          It is a fantastic system. The difference is that 4 points is a big deal to lose in EPL. So the equivalent would be close to paying -50 points in dream team (some would argue this number)
          You also receive two wildcards throughout the season, one you start with and one is given to you throughout January. Wildcards effectively let you wipe and re select your entire team without costing any points.

  9. Avatar


    January 13, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    Personally I think these changes won’t be fully understood for quite a while. For example, the starting squad, will it matter less, or potentially more? If people can perceptibly all pick up the best players throughout the season, surely nailing them initially gives an advantage. If teams are all going to look so similar by late-season, any little advantage is going to be even more important!

    Regarding the casual dream teamer. You know what I think they’ll do? Sideways trade to their hearts content!! Dane Swan has a ‘quiet game’ for 95 while Stanton busts out a 160. BANG… Stanton in! Hang on… Next week Swanny churns out 145 for Stanton’s 80… Shit. Better fix that up. They won’t get any better… They’ll just have more fun doing what makes their sides crap anyway and do it until round 23 instead of round 12.

    One thing that frustrates me most years is I always want to make the top 1000, minimum. I’ve been top 100 a few times and just scraped in to the top 5000 twice as well. Either way I find it hard to give up on my ranking at round 14 and save trades for finals. I care more about my rank and creating the side I set out to create, although I still get pissed when someone who sits about 25000th, knocks me off by 10 points in a GF because they have saved their trades. This year I can do both!

    I play FPL most years, with only mediocre effort, and to be honest I’ve always been pretty crap at it. Sure the price changes there work completely differently but there appears to be much more benefit there to picking up or ditching players based on their run of games. For AFL Fantasy this year there will be weeks where it will be hard to know who to trade (no injuries, rookies still low BEs, guns in form) and I think this may raise a new strategy and opportunity to make extra cash and gain extra points – looking at fixture/form/bottomed-out guns etc. As a loose example GAJ with a BE of 140 coming up against Crowley and another tough team while Scott Thompson hits a weak run of cellar-dwellers while at a low price could be an opportunity to make a quick $100k and 100 points.

    What I’m saying is, it may not actually change how much research we do, but more what we do it on. With the potential there for everyone to have better sides by the business end, the smaller advantages will have more significance. 44 trades is a lot, but they don’t use themselves! The person who uses them the best (and as always has a bit of luck) will probably still take the car!

    So, yes, it will be very different. There will be times we wish it didn’t change, and times we’re grateful it did.

    Will I like it more this year, or less? I’ll tell you that in September.

  10. Avatar


    January 13, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    The thing that worries me is if they change the magic number and you can only start with 7-8 premo’s i think this will kill the casual dreamteamer off because his team will be knackered 9-10 rounds in and they will give up even with 2 trades per week

  11. Avatar


    January 13, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Here my 2 cents.

    The changes are in place. This is the competition we have now and nothing will change that.
    So instead of wasting time and energy bitching about them, lets find a way to work the changes to your advantage.

    Lets build a bridge and move on people.

    • Avatar


      January 13, 2013 at 3:00 pm

      And while we are at it eat some cement.

      While I can see the arguments against the change, personally I will like 2 trades . I am not in the same league as the pro DTers, so I can sympathise to some extent, but the world changes all the time. My point is that it may have changed for the better for more people (mugs like myself) and affect a smaller amount of people such as the hard core self professed pro DTers.

      I am sure there will be challenges ahead and new strategies will need to be developed and adapted at the correct time. I also play FPL and agree with Adzman and MattyCraig that it will still provide the same amount of fun.

  12. Avatar


    January 13, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    Wow… A few days since I have been on the site and wow.. Lots of passion.

    I am not gonna congratulate or condemn but let’s keep the comments in the right vein.

    For what it is worth, I love the change, we have a new ball game and I am yet to get my brain around how to play it, but it is a new challenge.

    Counting down the days till NAB.

    • Avatar


      January 13, 2013 at 3:57 pm

      Well said Rainman

  13. Avatar


    January 13, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    This would have been my third year playing. For the last two I’ve burned trades like the buggery so you’d think I’d like the changes.

    Sadly chess has become checkers and vested interests on this site want us to adapt. Happy to adapt in life but NOT when vested interests tell me to.

    • Avatar


      January 13, 2013 at 4:41 pm

      What vested interests mate? Most of the DTTalk crew have been trying to explain WHY the change, which everyone is getting caught up with. I know that quite a few of us are not happy with the change, personally I think 44 trades is too many, and would have been happier with something closer to 34. We are just trying to look for positives. The reality is that Dream Team has changed every year for the past 3 years with expansion clubs and new AFL rules.

      I saw no one complaining when DPP trading came in, or when we were protesting rolling-lockout, and I’m not sure why there seems to be a conspiracy now. It sucks, but it’s done so lets move on and find a way to make it work.

  14. Avatar


    January 13, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    As a suggestion for tbetta and/or whomever does the stock market to show best trade targets each round and who to swap for? This would help new coaches plenty and give some others a bit of insight into how best to use your 2 trades each week.

    Could even be a separate article explaining why to get a premo out (high BE, next 3 opponents average) and who to bring in (rookie on fire/bubble, premo about to shoot up in price etc…)

  15. Avatar


    January 13, 2013 at 4:32 pm

    Enough. Most of us who are passionate have vented our spleen. What now? The aim of the game is still to get 22 premiums as soon as possible. To do this one must generate cash. This aspect has not changed.For example, trading say Swan when he is set to drop 30 K to Pendles for a net profit of 60 K is a move not considered before. I think one must ensure your capital funds are increasing. Rookie growth has been the way, but premium ebbs and growth could be another.

  16. Avatar


    January 13, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    I have just read today’s stuff.

    One would have to an idiot to be surprised that OUR DT people are paid.

    How many times does Warnie have to apologise for a faux pas?

    I enjoy the bull dust about people leaving DT – look, most of us can’t help ourselves and we will be there to give a go.

    Who keeps the statistics showing DT numbers are falling and SC numbers increasing? How about someone putting the true figures of each group on this site.

    In addition, my wife, Belinda, will have a team this year. Let me say that Belinda is a school teacher who is good at her job and highly intelligent and also lives in Launceston (popular place) and I am not sure I want her in my league -she reads and retains too much information.

    Aside from DT Talk L’ton has many other firsts. Legacy had their first meeting here – Melbourne then ran with it and, the Vietnam Veterans’ Association’s first meeting and formation was in L’ton.

    • Avatar


      January 13, 2013 at 5:22 pm

      all I can say is stuff has gone down today

    • Avatar


      January 13, 2013 at 6:20 pm

      What a load of dribble ..

      • Avatar


        January 13, 2013 at 6:21 pm


        • Avatar


          January 13, 2013 at 7:23 pm

          Thanks mate. Matches a lot of other stuff, eh?

          • Avatar


            January 14, 2013 at 5:12 pm

            Just wondered why we needed to know about your wife ? Seemed rather odd

    • Avatar


      January 13, 2013 at 8:03 pm

      Which Warnie, et al are we talking to Ray? DTT Warnie, VS Warnie or just Warnie? I don’t know, but then again I am an idiot apparently :)

      This is what happens when people are wearing too many hats, no man can serve 2 masters Ray, one of the older legal axioms of common law. Still it maybe that the concept of transparency is of no concern to you. Fair enough.

      “How many times does Warnie have to apologise for a faux pas?”

      A faux pas is a violation of accepted social norms, has anyone accused Warnie et al of this? I don’t think so, their independence has been questioned however, “loving the changes”, oh yer, I am an employee of VS, you get my drift…maybe :)

      BTW, Agree the player number stats of both games would be nice, indicative data is readily available during the season when one logs in, that would be number of registered teams, some of us pay attention to detail, eh.

      Another beer Ray?

      • Avatar


        January 13, 2013 at 8:07 pm

        By the way Warnie et al, I trust you noticed my comment above;

        “Thats a fair comment, and both you and this sites history clearly indicates that. However transparency is generally not a “glass half full or empty” situation, its being able to see all the facts and have faith that those that MAY have some influence in decisions are in fact acting in the interests of ALL, not some, you get my drift.”

        So as a long time user(not commenter) I do have a fair idea as your position. ie the greater good of the game. However your own circumstances allow your views to be questioned, too many hats, which one are you wearing today.

        I am sorry if I have offended you, I don’t think so though, Tassie boys are tough and WTF do you care what I and others may think, right :)

        • Avatar


          January 13, 2013 at 8:31 pm

          Boring, find another crusade buddy !!

          • Avatar


            January 13, 2013 at 9:03 pm

            Sturt, eh?

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            January 13, 2013 at 9:19 pm

            Yep, the only way is up !

  17. Avatar


    January 13, 2013 at 6:24 pm

    Has there been any mention on how much money we’ve got to spend … Could be that premo’s are too expensive & you have to strategise on which mid – cheap price players are going to step up. That might be the rub ….?

    • Avatar


      January 13, 2013 at 6:31 pm

      Yes there has and they brought out Assistant Picker. Let me put it this way, i paid for Assistant Coach mainly because i wanted Assistant Picker so if all of the prices on it are actually irrelevant .. ill be farkin pissed

  18. Avatar

    DT Tragic

    January 13, 2013 at 6:47 pm

    Final word?
    To the DT Talk crew –
    What makes this site awesome is the information, stats and opinion of all the writers.

    The comments (blog) section is a nice forum to hear readers progress of their team and players.

    Don’t let the negative minority get to you by feeling the need to justify or defend the articles that have been published on the website.

    The vast majority of DT Talk fans don’t really care about the side issues, we use the site as a source of info, hope to get a laugh from the pirate being wrong, find the next big cash cow and and move on.

    All the best for season 2013 to all.

    • Avatar


      January 13, 2013 at 7:28 pm


  19. Avatar


    January 13, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    I can’t quite understand how it is that SC is being mentioned as a more successful competition than DT. Is this being based on number teams entered or hits to the website?? i don’t think it is really relevant anyway because it is an absolutely crap competition. Even the people who run it have no idea as to how a player ends up with his final score so how on earth are you supposed to know. I know that every time my player kicks the ball, I’ll get three points. I don’t care whether it goes to one of his own players or the opposition. When he marks it, I know I’ll get three points – I don’t have to figure out if it was a “contested” mark or not? After the final siren goes, I can look at my DT score on the various web sites that do the live scores and know that that is what my score will be – I don’t have to wait another 30 minutes till VS (or whoever controls SC) do their team (player) adjustments. More importantly, I can see my players and my opponent’s players scores LIVE (or close to it) with DT.
    I can only assume that the success of SC is solely based on the marketing of it by the Herald Sun and hence I would suggest that (I am guessing here) that the only state in which SC is more popular than DT is Victoria. It makes it so much easier to promote something when you are receiving the equivalent of around $1M free marketing.
    I am convinced that VS, in trying to make the game easier is hoping to gain a number of new people to the game. They have two problems with this assumption.
    1/ How are they going to make the masses aware that it is now a much easier game? If someone who has not played it before, they probably won’t play it this year because of the lack of knowledge about the changes. They won’t read about it in the HS.
    2/ The new rules will have disenfranchised a large chunk of their core audience. It is so similar to the AFL themselves who believe it is far more important to spend millions of $s promoting the game in NSW and QLD together with ensuring GCS and GWS will be successful whilst at the same time saying to the supporters of Footscray, Melbourne and North that you are most likely to remain unfulfilled over the next 20 years or so but – change is good. “Maybe you should relocate to New Zealand”. As a result, whatever small increase they get in newbies will be offset by the loss of their existing market. As someone who has been in a sales profession for three decades the one thing that I have learnt in that time is that it is far more difficult and more expensive to get a new customer than to keep the one you already have.
    Time will tell.

  20. Avatar

    jim cowski

    January 13, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    the question has to be asked, whats going to change next?

    2014- Increase to 3 free trades a week, every week for the year.

    2015- Every player in the comp gets dual position eligibility.

    2016- Unlimited Cash/Salary Cap.

    Wow. Sounds great.

    2013 wont be that bad compared to the above, but its the way the game is heading.

    • Avatar


      January 13, 2013 at 9:51 pm

      Just give everyone a car :) LOL.

      • Avatar


        January 13, 2013 at 9:52 pm


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      January 13, 2013 at 9:52 pm

      lol Jim… I know your pissed off and have been a long time contributer but unlimited cash is a little too far…

  21. Avatar


    January 14, 2013 at 6:14 am

    @ Warnie, Calvin, Roy and *all* who contibute articles to DT Talk.

    Although my huge rant the other day was sparked by the rule changes it was fuelled by what I saw as puppet commentary (which are two completely separate issues). I started slapping faces, emotively calling people wankers and whores. I used words like f**k, shit, and sluts (Fark I love being Australian!) yet you allowed my passionate
    response without censorship. Very ballsy. Very real. Thankyou.

    I have zero problem with any of you guys getting a $ / material reward for your efforts. Indeed I reckon someone should throw some ‘thankyou’ $ or gifts at people like RLGriffin for the time they give up to help build the landscape (which indirectly helps VS and other organisations to financially profit). Getting rewarded for effort is
    different from being a FatCat (or lapdog thereof) or from having $ rule the roost.

    I don’t mean for this post to be a retraction of my original one. Nonetheless I particularly want to apologise to Cousins Coke n Ice (aka @douthteez) for some of my remarks which could, and should, have been more thoughtfully put across. I didn’t (and still don’t) agree with some of his comments yet it is clear (particulary on 2nd reading) that he was *mainly* trying to make the best of the hand we’ve all been dealt and that he had a crack at helping others do the same. Thankyou mate, and sorry I wasn’t more careful.

    The new rules, as they stand, kills *my* love of DT. This doesn’t neccesarily mean I wont have a team in the work league this year but it *does* mean I won’t bother with assistant coach, prospectus, trawling websites, or really giving a flying f**k about my team and I’m as likely to abandon it at any stage. Same would happen if new house rules, which I didn’t like, were introduced in poker. I’d probably lose interest and do something else.

    I sure as shit won’t be running away in protest to SC with the taste of sour grapes in my mouth though. If I ever play SC (and I have wanted to for a while) it will be coz I have enough time to be a serious contender. Apparently it needs even more research/time than DT to win, especially now with the rolling lockout.

    I love the raw human edge that exists at this site. Massive thanks to all you guys for creating that atmosphere, now and in the past. I trust that you will continue to learn from any mistakes you’ve made (like the rest of us) and will continue to make the DT community a better and more vivid place. I can’t imagine how barren the landscape would be without you. You guys are never gonna be perfect yet I wouldn’t want it any other way, irrespective of whether I visit this site again or not.

    Good Luck to all in DT 2013.

    (Over and out)

    • Avatar


      January 14, 2013 at 7:10 am

      Sheest, did everyone get a soapbox for Christmas.

      • Avatar


        January 14, 2013 at 3:54 pm

        @ ADMIN

        Mumbles’ point is taken.
        Please remove my last post (and this one) and simply extend my apologies to Cousins Coke n Ice (aka @douthteez).

  22. Avatar


    January 14, 2013 at 8:56 am

    People are probably getting tired of the epl analogies but there is a trigger in that game that stops you from sideways trading your ‘premos’ willy nilly.

    When selling a player you lose 50% of any profit you have made on that player from price rises… so
    generally you cant just trade a gun out for a week then bring him right back in without some kind of squad upheaval.

    In our game i reckon this could work if we made the rule count for all players brought into your squad after rd one.

    It would reward you for picking the right rookies for a start, because you would get their full price back when you cash in. If you just jumped on board a rookie later on you wouldnt get the entire price on sale.

    And as stated if you bought in a player who had bottomed out then rose again in price, if you wanted to again trade him out because of an injury or bad set of fixtures you only get half the profit you made on him.

    the figure dosent exactly have to be 50% it could be worked on but I reckon some kind of trigger; be it this or a tax on trades could limit the amount of straight swapping preoms week after week.

  23. Avatar


    January 14, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    I for one am happy I can focus on overall AND league wins come end of season time. Last year felt like I was a bit disadvantaged going for overall but holding out on trades due to League finals.

  24. Avatar

    Magpie Mayhem

    January 14, 2013 at 9:16 pm

    Forph ucks ache……not a lot has changed, do some of your “own” research pick the right rookies, mix them with some breakout “unique” players and add a dash of luck and you are in the top 1000.
    Oh yeh……..don’t forget to have some fun :-)

  25. Avatar


    January 14, 2013 at 10:21 pm

    So, at the risk of flogging a dead horse…

    It’s unfair to have a go at the admins and contributers of this site. It obviously wasn’t their decision. However, I think quite a few people are annoyed that instead of saying what most of us think (and the it is most of us judging by the poll on this site), namely that it’s crap, they’ve taken the path to try to explain why VS has made the changes and justify them.

    We don’t want it to be justified. All this talk about having more decisions and more options isn’t really an argument. If the salary cap was removed completely and unlimited trading allowed all season long, then you could argue the same thing. More overall decisions and choices available doesn’t necessarily translate to a better game.

    The admin here haven’t really come out and said what they really think. We got a late admission from Griff that he thinks it’s too many trades, but that was well after the backlash started. I’m curious about what they all really think. Given that they have a financial interest – including a cut from the Assistant manager sales, it sounds like they weren’t consulted or even advised of this before the AFL site advertised the changes. It’s more likely that hardcore DT’ers are going buy this feature than those “casual” players who don’t put any real thought or strategy into their teams and don’t know how to trade properly (and are unwilling to learn). My feeling is that less people will be prepared to by Assistant coach now. Did VS even do a test to see how this major change affects the game? And if so, then why didn’t they invit or involve anyone from this site? Or even the admins from the site?

    I’ve stated that I’ll give the game a go, and see how it is, but I’m not convinced that I’ll like it, so I’ll be saving my money on that to start with. I bought it in previous years, because I liked the product and knew I would use it. Like I said before, I was a paying customer, but now VS have to start all over again in regaining my custom. I won’t be the only one, and given that it’s so much harder to gain new customers, than to keep the ones you already have, it’s dodgy even from a business perspective.

    VS is treating their long term players with contempt. The prize has always been a car – even when the game was merely a side distraction and only a fraction of the people were involved, and they weren’t earning money from supplements such as Assistant coach. People have noticed this – it doesn’t go over well to be so tight and not introduce a better first prize and prizes for placings. I reckon top 100 should get something – even if spots 51-100 just get a free Assistant coach subscription and/or a prospectus for the the next year. Then there are things such as rules changes – there are never polls conducted on what should or shouldn’t be introduced. I’ve never seen a feedback form or a poll asking for suggestions anywhere on the site. I wouldn’t even know how to go about sending VS a suggestion or a complaint directly. Surely anybody who logs in during the off-season should be redirected to a “how can we make the game better” page, where people can check boxes on a survey to give feedback on whether rule changes from last year were good or not, vote on future rule change considerations, and maybe an opportunity to leave a comment as well.

    Their marketing is shocking and the only reson they’ve been able to grow is because their product has been good and (up to now) the only changes they’ve made have been minor and not changed or cheapened the fundamentals of the game. Well that’s changed now.

    I really think that the numbers playing will go down, because whilst the game may be easier for new players now, I doubt very much that they’ll market it properly to people who aren’t playing at all at the moment. People who lost interest halfway through the season will probably still lose interest and stop – I see it on the EPL site all the time. By the time the season’s done, a large percentage of players are gone – even though they could still be trading and playing. But unlike before, I can see established players also getting pissed off by the lack of challenge halfway through, and abandoning their teams.

    Posters here have said that those who don’t like it can go – and yeah, we can. But we’re losing something we enjoyed doing. If the owner of your favourite pub decided to turn his place into a pretentious cocktail lounge, then even though he has every right to do it, and even though there are other pubs around, you’re still going to be upset and disappointed – and probably complain.

    Sorry for the length of the post, I didn’t intend to go on for that long…

    • Avatar


      January 14, 2013 at 10:53 pm

      Some what flogging a dead horse, but good to have your opinion just the same.

      To clarify, the main reason I was ‘late to the party’ is because most of my commentary was via twitter, as some users in here were quite keen to have a head on a stake for the decision, and my neck happened to be out, and quite frankly, I was avoiding the place.

      Additionally, if you look at my timeline of posts, most of my comments started quite light hearted, but went down hill when myself and others started getting comments that we were cash for comment, puppets to VS and so on. All bullshit really as the amount of times we suggested things that go against VS would undoubtedly outweigh things we agree with (except the initial love of the game).

      I can’t speak for everyone, but Warnie and myself have both stated that we found out about the changes via the email that everyone got on Friday morning. The article that we are commenting on which ‘justifies’ the decision was also written by another user, not admins, and yes, admins got caught up in defending the free speech of the author, more so then agreeing with it, which all of a sudden meant we were against the free speech of those who oppose it.

      The point is that most of the contributors to the site decided independently that rather than look at why the trades were increased, that this is clearly an AFL/VS driven decision which has gone public, and as such, there is no changing it so we might as well help lead the discussion in how we can approach the changes positively, then throwing in the towel without even seeing the changes in process. I think that we were also happier to embrace the change, after the rolling-lockout was shot down, after many of us opposed it (some also liked it).

      The way I see it, there are both negatives and positives of this change.

      More trades makes it easier for people who don’t know what they’re doing to keep pace with experienced players.
      More trades may result in more people sideways trading for similar players, or getting similar rookies on the bubble.
      Money can be made faster to upgrade teams. Personally I don’t see how this is a bad thing, but it’s been thrown around.
      We have to change our trading strategies.

      If you are six weeks into the eliminator, you can now spare an extra trade to try and last in it longer than if you were going for overall. Same with 50/50 league matches. Traditionally many people had to pick one over the other to save trades.
      Bye rounds will be easier to prepare for, without dooming round 15 onwards.
      The pattern of club doctors not disclosing full injuries can be avoided. Last year people traded out Scotland thinking he was gone for 4 weeks on doctors advice. Coaches won’t have to waste a trade when he comes back after one week.
      You won’t be stuck with spuds like Broughton on your bench going into finals.
      You will have trades left IF you make finals.

      This is how I view the changes, this is why I am trying to remain positive. I think 30 trades, with 2 each week for finals is better, but the decision has been made. I hope to see a trade tax either from the salary cap or in points introduced to put more ‘value’ on trades, but again, not my decision.

      Anyway, hope this clears the air a bit, as after this weekend, I’m actually questioning the value of my contributions.


      • Avatar


        January 15, 2013 at 7:10 am

        From my perspective and no doubt from many others, there is no need to question the value of your contributions. Many here have vented their spleen at the wrong people. I for one enjoy what you write. Thanks.

        • Avatar


          January 15, 2013 at 9:12 am

          it all started so fun.. writing jokey writeups about a game i obsess over, getting in with the community and having a laugh….. then you get people start sniping at you, which is OK, you can expect it, not everyone can agree but when it starts to get you down its too much.

          Hanging round the house with my little kids and missus… DT was/Is my escape… i came to DT and DTtalk to ESCAPE the bitchiness and annoyance of home (and win a car), at times there are more hissy fits and kids throwing their toys out of the pram in here! I love having a debate over anything but its hard to debate when ppl know who you are but they are in the black shadows taking pot shots.

          we obsess over this game, we love it but in the end its only a vehicle for the afl/vs to garner website hits and advertising…do you even think the outrage has even caused a ripple in their oiffice? nahhh

          Just be thankful for the game we get, adapt and try win the car!

    • Warnie


      January 14, 2013 at 10:59 pm

      Just quickly on my phone….

      We had no idea about these changes. I found out when I checked my email on Friday morning. My reaction was as simple as looking at what it means for DT in 2013. It seems some weren’t happy with that judging by the passionate comments. They wanted me to have an opinion – which they wanted me to hate it by the sounds of it and rant and bitch on. Maybe I was in a good mood and was just in the mindset of these being the cards we are dealt, let’s looks at what it means.

      Anyway… personally, as a hardcore DT coach, I will miss the old game. 30 trades sounded right to me (what I thought it was going to be). We are in a new world of AFL which changes DT a fair bit. Players are rested a lot more, we have more injures. Extra trades were going to be a good solution to that in my opinion. The best part of DT is working out your trades each week. I do love having to stress over whether we should use that trade or not… but with my glass half full, I see a lot of positives in what is essentially a new game.

      We have financial incentive with this site and our writing for VS. But I would like to put it out there that I still have opinions that may not necessarily be those of Virtual Sports. The Rolling Lockout is a prime example. I was against that from day dot and was vocal. Yet Herald Sun (and I thought the AFL) wanted it. Sorry if I come across as beig supportive of ‘every’ bit of change or looking like I feed VS propaganda through this site. Nothing could be further from te truth.

      Like I said in a previous comment, I want what’s best for the game to evolve… and as a result, what’s best for our site and is personally. We had a dream of this being more than just a hobby… hence the dollars put into shooting a pilot for a TV show.

      Sorry. I’ve dribbled a lot of shit. My thumbs are sore!

      This might be worth reading from a few months ago…

      • Avatar


        January 15, 2013 at 12:53 am

        Thanks for the replies, Griff and Warnie,

        Although I’m a frequent visitor on the site, I don’t post too much, so I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I’m a moderator on a big discussion forum (more than 150,000 members), and I know that it can be difficult and that posts can be misinterpreted, which leads to personal attacks and questions of integrity. So I understand and don’t envy the position you’ve been placed in here.

        It’s clear that this is issue is pretty divisive. Just reading the list of positives v negatives from Griff, there are things you’ve classed as positives, that I’m either neutral on, or see as a negative, and things you’ve classed as negatives, that I wouldn’t necessarily see as such either. It’s all a matter of perception.

        I can see that you’re not VS puppets, because you do comment when you don’t agree with them – and I’m sure a lot of others here can see that too.

        One last horse flog (while we still have a carcass) is that I also don’t think that this will lead to the desired outcome of keeping people interested till the end. I have a friend who I play fantasy EPL with and he’s always keen at the start of a season. Then sometime during the season, he goes on holidays or gets busy with work, or something else comes up and he doesn’t touch his team for a few weeks. In his absense, everyone else has traded in players that hit form and traded out players that lost form . He normall comes back and plays for a few more weeks, then inevitably finds he’s too far behind with trading and doesn’t have the guns everyone else has, and because everyone else has the same number of trades remaining, they’re upgrading further and he can never catch up and he quits altogether.

        Until now, if you miss a few weeks in the middle of DT and your starting players (or emergencies) kept playing, you had the opportunity to rejoin the comp without losing out too much. You saved on trades, and even if there are some obvious players you missed – you’re not alone, because active players are saving trades too. You can also catch up again relatively quickly, because making 6 trades over the next 3 weeks, while regular players probably traded in that time and need to conserve their trades more, allows you to catch up to an extent.

        Again – this is a likely scenario where this conclusion might have been anticipated by getting users to test the new gameplay.

        Anyway, I’d love to see VS introduce some sort of feedback system. Nobody ever asks us how we feel about rule changes, and even if they just get introduced, then it would be nice to at least ask us if we think they were good changes or not after the season ended. It would also be nice if we could als make some suggestions somewhere.

        For example, I’m still convinced that my bye week solution would work. Playing 2 rounds of games over the 3 weeks and not allowing any moves between a player’s first and 2nd games (but being able to designate all bench players as emergencies for those weeks as cover for players dropped or injured for the 2nd game) may not be the ideal scenario, but it would have been a hell of a lot better than the crappy solution we were offered last season, and would have resulted in a lot less donuts. Unfortunately, not only was there nowhere apart from this forum I found to make that suggestion, but I didn’t have the feeling that they even cared about getting any possible solutions from any of us normal players.

        So yeah – that’s my gripe and that’s what I’d want. Allow us to give feedback for considered changes, and then revisit those changes at the end of the season to see if we thought they enhanced the game.

        Instead of messing with it and just bringing new rules in, in what appears to be a random fashion and expecting everyone to be happy about it and just go with it…

    • Avatar


      January 15, 2013 at 12:02 am

      Well articulated.
      Great to see comment addressing the issues, not attacking the person.

  26. Avatar

    Goaled Finger

    January 15, 2013 at 10:28 am

    I was looking for my soap box, but one of the kids took it to use as storage for his Star Wars lego. So I’ve rummaged through the cupboard and I’m standing on my old VCR. I’m not too high, so I’ll wave my arms a little to add emphasis.

    The DT Talk crew are blokes like you and I, only they are blokes with the get up and go to actually to the hard work and long hours required to put together this site. They give us extremely useful DT content FREE OF CHARGE and nobody here could deny the service they provide gives all of us an instant head start on 75% of the rest of the comp.

    When they do charge for something, like the cheat sheet, they charge less than what that BJ fellow gives the homeless guy 2 suburbs over for a rub and tug. Yet still people whinge and moan worse than a bloke in Yorkshire that’s known as ‘Stewart the whinger’.

    It’s simple, the opinions expressed on here by the DT Talk crew are their opinions. Just like the shit I’m dribbling here is my opinion. Sometimes they say things you’ll agree with, sometimes they’ll say something that makes you think “Broughton, are you f**king kidding me”?! The key is to take on board what they suggest and do with it what you like.

    Attacking the guys for their content shows a real lack of class and makes you seem like an ungrateful child that just received a pair of socks for Xmas.

    Seriously, it’s a FREE site that is dedicated to a FREE online virtual football game. We all tend to take it a little more seriously than we should, but surely we can keep a bit of rationality about it?

    Better stop, this VCR is making some awkward noises, I think it’s going to bre…

  27. Avatar

    Goaled Finger

    January 15, 2013 at 10:33 am

    For the record, I’m not a fan of the 2 trades per week. I do, however, plan to adapt to the rule – will need a while to sit down and weigh up the pros and cons to a few different approaches (then chuck them out the window and do what everyone else is doing).

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