FAQ and Common Misconceptions

After going through some of the comments throughout the posts, we thought it was about time we threw this up for a couple of reasons. The first is to answer some FAQ’s and correct some popular misconceptions we’ve seen so far, and to keep it all in one easy-to-find place.

The second reason is so that you guys can throw us (and other readers) any DT-related questions that you might have at this early point in the season. Any common or important queries will be added to the main post.

Don’t forget that you can start picking your Dream Team now if you subscribed to the Assistant Coach by logging into your Dream Team (dreamteam.afl.com.au) and clicking on “Team Picker“. Alternatively, m0nty over at FanFooty.com.au has his “Fanplanner” to start picking your team on. Otherwise, the real competition will be open on February 1st.

“I’ve been living under a rock. What changes are there to Dream Team in 2012?”

Information on all the changes were posted here – if you missed it, follow the link and get up to date.

“Do we have League matches over the Multi Bye Rounds?”

Yes we do. The first two rounds are matchup-free, with the first head-to-head coming in Round 3.

“But I don’t understand. 15 Leagues matches + 4 Finals matches + 3 MBR’s off easily fits into 23 Rounds?”

That’s because of another change to DT in 2012 – Leagues have extended to 18 teams, to fall in line with the current AFL system. That makes 17 + 4 + 3 = 24 Rounds, which doesn’t fit. So instead, the 2 weeks off come in Rounds 1 and 2.

“I’m a bit confused, how does the new DPP trading rules work?”

This has been mentioned a couple of times before, but here’s a recap. We can now trade a player out from one position and using Dual Position Players (DPP), can trade a player into a totally different position with only one trade.

Let’s look at an example using a 2011 scenario. I trade out a DEFENDER (eg. Jack Grimes) and am left with an empty slot. I substitute a DEF/MID who is currently in my midfield (eg. Dyson Heppell) into Grimes’ empty slot and how trade in a new MIDFIELDER (eg. Dane Swan) into Heppell’s empty slot. So basically I have been able to trade Grimes (DEF) out for Swan (MID) using only the one trade.

“It says we get 3 trades for each of the Multi Bye Rounds… Is that included in the 24 we have for the year, or are they extra? And do we have to use all three?”

It is included in the 24 you have for the year, and no, you don’t have to use all 3 if you don’t want to. How you deal with the MBR’s are up to you, but Virtual Sports have given us that extra flexibility to us those trades if we need them.

“I don’t want to pick Player X because I already have his teammate, Player Y”

That doesn’t make any sense – you must have a 2011 hangover. While we couldn’t pick too many players from the same team due to weekly byes, this year we have a bit more freedom, as all the byes occur over the three weeks from Round 11 to 13. Remember the days of a Geelong ABC midfield? It’s now possible again!

What you mean to say, and what you should be thinking is, “I don’t want to pick Player X because I already have too many players that share Player X’s bye”. Whether or not they are from the same team is irrelevant. For instance, having a midfield containing Swan, Pendlebury and Thomas is identical to a midfield containing Selwood, Barlow and Watson in terms of the bye.

“It is mathematically impossible to avoid donuts in the Multi Bye Rounds this year!”

Not true. Dream Team pioneer m0nty demonstrated very early in the pre-season how it is possible to avoid a donut. Never did he say it was easy, or even very likely.

Basically, for those too lazy to follow the link, it involves trading between byes and selecting players with R/F eligibility.

“Has anyone figured out a way to avoid donuts over the Multi Bye Rounds without using DPP?”

No they haven’t, because it’s not possible.

Here’s the math. You have 30 players in your side. Say you start with 8/11/11 in the format of R11 bye/R12 Bye/R13 Bye. That means that you have 8 players with the bye in Round 11, just enough to fill the 8 bench positions. Obviously, after Round 11 you want to trade 3 of your players who have a R12B to players who already experienced their bye, in this case those from R11B.

So for R12, you have a structure of 11/8/11. Again, 8 players and 8 bench positions, awesome. After R12, then you do the same thing – trade three of your R13B players to R11B or R12B players, leaving you with a structure of (for instance) 11/11/8. Hooray, right? And I only used 6 trades? Not quite.

If you don’t utilise DPP you can’t fill the two Ruck bench positions over the 3 weeks. Without at least two Ruck DPP’s you’re looking at at least 2 donuts across the ground. Not to mention that it is a best case scenario, given injuries, form and uncertainty with your rookies.

This leads to another misconception:

“It is only possible to avoid a donut over the MBR’s by picking Lycett”

Again, not technically true. The idea here is that Lycett is the only R/F with a R11B, so in order to avoid a donut, you’ll need him (using to the method m0nty penned). But there is another way to do it.

You pick Hamling (R/F, R12B), Roughead (R/F, R13B), Sellar (B/R, R12B) and Lever (B/R, R13B), along with 2 R11B ruckmen, say Cox and Giles.

Not recommended.

“I’m not going to pick Swan because he’ll just be cheaper halfway through the year even if he does maintain his average, so it’s better value to upgrade to him then”

Yes, he will be cheaper halfway through the year even if he does maintain his average, that’s true. But if he does maintain his average, he won’t be better value. In fact, he will be equivalent in value.

This is because of the Magic Number and its behaviour over the course of a year. Generally speaking, it will decrease as the year goes on. This is because rookies and underpriced players experience price increases, and to protect against inflation, the Magic Number is lowered accordingly. This affects everyone’s price, so even if Swan averages 121 over the course of the first 10 rounds, his price will decrease.

So yes, you can pick him up cheaper. But his value is relative, so consider this; You pick up Swan at the beginning of the year for $598,300 priced at 120.95, and after 10 rounds, Swan maintains his average of 120.95 which now equates to (for example) $520,000. Has he dropped in value? No. He is exactly the same value. His price is just a number, relative to the rest of the competition.

And just to clarify, this is not to say that it’s a poor strategy to start without Swan and wait until the middle of the year to pick him up, just that it’s only worthwhile if his average drops, not his price.

“How come there are no Rookies in the Deck of DT?

The Deck focuses more on players who have played before because it gives us something concrete to talk about, in terms of past stats, team role, job security, etc. It’s all a big unknown with the recent draftees.

There will be plenty of coverage on the up-and-coming rookies throughout the nab cup campaign, I assure you. For most, this is the first chance that we, as DT coaches, get to see the newbies in action, so there will be plenty to talk about!

“It lists Player X with this price/position on the Team Picker, but it says differently on the Fanplanner. Which is right?”

By definition, the Team Picker. It is produced and released by Virtual Sports in conjunction with Champion Data, the people who actually decide these things.

The Fanplanner is a great resource for those who didn’t purchase the Assistant Coach, and it is something that m0nty has put a lot of time into to get as accurate as possible. Unfortunately, there will always be small things that sneak through, so ask those with the Team Picker for clarification.

“Why wasn’t Player X given more of a discount? Player Y played the same amount of games and got this discount – why aren’t they following their own rules?”

First things first – they (Virtual Sports) never made any ‘rules’ for discounting players. But to their credit, they’ve tried to keep it as uniform as possible, which probably creates the appearance that they are working with some kind of formula that determines a discount. Not so.

Virtual Sports’ first priority is the integrity of the game. If some logic applied to some player in the past means that a player in the present will be impossible to ignore, then they have to alter that logic.

For instance, Porplyzia finished 2011 with one game at an average of 16. Using normal pricing techniques, he’d end up priced well below that of a rookie, meaning he’d be locked into most teams! Instead, VS took the step of pricing him at a discount on his 2010 average, which has to be said, is much more reflective of his ability and potential than the former option.

Same thing goes with mature-age recruits this year. Due to the pattern of success of older players such as Mzungu, Barlow and Podsiadly, mature-age draftees have had a range of premiums placed on them to keep selection competitive and to promote variety between teams. Remember, no one wants to see identical teams come Round 1.

“Which mature-age draftees/concessions had a premium added to their price in 2012?”

There are a handful who ended up getting a small bump up in price by VS, ranging from just a couple of thousand extra to around $36k for one unlucky player (Sam Frost).

In order of most to least expensive: Clifton, Frost, Cooyou, Horsely, Giles, Pfeiffer, Folau, Milera, Mohr, Saad and Spurr.

 That’s it so far – hopefully we’re all a bit clearer on some of the finer points of DT 2012. Remember, if you have any other queries, send us a comment and someone will clear it up for you!

48 Comments

  • Enough of this, I cant handle it. Bring on the Giants, 2012 footy and the new DT Season.

  • i’m sure this has already been bought up but i couldn’t find a response to it…

    If we have 3 ‘LEAGUE BYES’ in head to head dream team, why aren’t two of them in rounds 11 and 12?

    Then instead of having league byes in rounds 1 and 2, you can have league games being played.

    This way when it comes to round 11 and 12 its not as big a deal if you’re short on players because
    there are no head to head league games.

    If this happened, only ONE round (13) would be considered as head to head on the same round multi byes are happening the AFL… a lot less to worry about

    or am i missing something?

    • no your not missing anything but vs def are ,maybe they will see your post and change it SIMPLE!!!

    • While it might make sense, the reasoning would be that those first two weeks leagues can still be created (meaning more people can register and therefore more revenue). It was suggested to bring finals forward too… because of the hideousness of the Grand Final round and team selection. But that won’t happen because they want people playing to the end.

      If we only had league games in one of those rounds, it would make 1/3 of the players in the comp ‘less valuable’ to pick also. Still, everyone is on the same playing field, so yeah probably doesn’t matter much.

      • yeh i understand the registration, more people see advertisement and sign on after the first couple of rounds etc just seems as though it will cause more problems doing it that way especially for the die hards that take it full on right from the start.

        having 3 head to head rounds with multi bye teams hurts the league more that anything cause a lot will come down to luck of fixturing and who you draw on those rounds. will kill our comp cause we have $$ on the line for a bit of fun but just will make it unfair.

        i guess it comes down to what your playing for… ranking or H2H as to what players are most valuable in this scenario

  • dt talk with hybrids for sale underneath the comments ,what a site..by the way iv got the burner supefast and cally razr x and they both bomb it :)

  • With regards to Montys plan to avoid donuts he posted this a couple of weeks later…

    “Unfortunately the only way to do it given the spread of R/Fs in 2012 is if Scott Lycett plays in R12 and R13. Tough call to get him in your team. I’m afraid many people will be abandoning the R/F strategy in that article and just eating the two donuts. It’s a shame. Now the structural question is not about how to avoid donuts, but when to plan on eating them so as to minimise their harmful effects”

    Because of how VS has set it up this season, its impossible to avoid donuts between Round 11-13.

    We just have to accept it, or VS need to come to the senses.

    • Yeah – it sucks, but we’re all on the same playing field. Interesting to see what typical scores will be over those rounds and what the average amount of donuts will be. 2-3? The three trades each week will be interesting.

      • one issue that comes up every yr on here around now is teams being similar,which i dont really think it is too much drama really.but i do think the way they have set it up this yr ie the bye rnds, ddp’s,could see us actually having more of the same players this yr than any other.
        either way it wont matter and we will always still play ,and its the same for everyone,but that doesnt mean its a good thing just because were all in the same boat.
        i still think it could of been handled better,and it doesnt have to be like this.
        but eitherway we need dt and will always play,but maybe they might want to listen to their players a bit and take some stuff on board…i know we prob should never mention sc on this site,but it seems they copy dt exactly every yr which makes it worse.also i can see draft style leagues getting bigger very quickly and while we dont want to lose this style,i think dt should get on the front foot and start running their draft style leagues from the start of the yr,because its coming in,and they might aswell lead the way in that aswell,if not the half a yr one at the moment wont stand up to the other comps.
        god this must be hard reading for school teachers haha ,sorry im too used to only needing to print and add up mostly numbers down on bits of wood and asi on building sites for too many yrs,so the grammar s just about dead,but my maths is good

  • Regarding Swan / Magic Number scenario and relative price, I agree. However, you can make it work by not spending the cash on Swan and keeping that extra cash in the bank – because the cash in your bank doesn’t decline in value when the magic number declines.

    So if theoretically you are playing for a league win as your goal and you think you can hold your own in the early rounds without getting smashed, then you could stash a bit of extra cash (eg, $500k) away and increase the buying power of your cash for finals. It wouldn’t increase the buying power by much… only 5-10%

    That being said – I’m not stupid so I’m getting Swan is in my team rd 1 :-D just pointing out you can sort of do it.

    • Yeah, that’s a very good point – although I would be argue that the cash you keep in your pocket could cost you points elsewhere, so it all comes out in the wash anyway.

  • Great post Warnie!
    Last year, Brappinalong suggested that it would be easier to rate teams if coaches state their main priority- leauge win or overall.
    I reckon if this would see more responses to team selection queries.
    Just an extra word to be typed, i.e League or Overall. (-;

    • All credit goes to @tbetta for this! Brilliant work. Very handy. And yeah… that is important – league or overall. If I was just going for league, “throwing” 3 games wouldn’t be a bad thing out of 17 roster matches. Who knows, you might even get a win or two in those rounds. All you need to do is make the 8!

      • Great work Tbetta!!!
        Fair dinkum, this site RULES!!!

      • Yeah well done Tbetta. I think this will be a good guide for a lot of people who only joined last year, and don’t realise that they were not ‘normal’ rules.. and for those who misread a lot of comments.

      • Well done tbetta your like a miniature budha covered in hair.

  • Nice write up.
    Knew all of that still not entirely happy with it though :).

    Heads up! Pav talking at Hopman cup, just hit a forehand with his nose!!

    Just said balla, mzungu, barlow, marabito playing mid he will be playing more in Fwd line!

  • To those who have Team Picker (via Assistant Coach),

    WHAT IS THE SALARY CAP?

    Is it the same as last year ($8 225k or something like that)? Or is it different?

  • My question is “Do you think DT is becoming too complex & moving beyond the everyday punter?”
    Last year we struggled to put a league together at work because people said it takes too much time. This year we need 18 teams! I work with 120 people!

    I rely on you guys to keep me up to date as I cannot find the time to do the research.

    • I wouldn’t say its complex but I think it’s:
      “easy to play, hard (and time consuming) to master.
      With so many people mastering the game now, if you don’t do some research you can really fall behind the pack.

      And yes I agree that increasing the teams to 18 is asking a lot to people who want a local league without any randoms.

      • I actually think 18 teams is awesome. We’ve a DT cash league going down at footy and that means more money up for grabs! (Finished 2nd in 2011)

  • What date does DT 2012 officially open to everyone? Cheers

  • the above explanation of the new DPP rule is fine, but in terms of actually doing it, im a bit confused.

    It says trade grimes out and put heppell in the backs, which is fine, but when i actually click TRADE on grimes, it will take me to the screen with a list of defenders to bring in for him, will it not?

    so in terms of this “empty slot” that heppell will come into, how is that meant to work, when once the season starts you cant actually have an empty slot?

    am i missing something?

    or will grimes move into the midfield when i move heppell into the backs and then grimes must be traded out of the midfield immediately to a midfielder (ala the swan trade above)?

    any help would be much appreciated as i reckon this could be the biggest rule out of all the rule changes.

    • Wait until you see the set up of the game for next year. It will make more sense then. It all looks completely different to this years in regards to trading. And the other thing is, we won’t actually see this until Round 1 lockout is over.

      • Hey Warnie,
        Is there any other spanners in the works or surprises we wont find out until it opens or is everything pretty much out there now,

        Cheers

  • oh right, because i couldnt figure how that could possibly work using the format of last years setup.

    have to hold fire til feb 1 then

    im sure you blokes will have another feature on it one it opens for real anyway! cheers

  • Am keen to get your observations about the importance of DPP links in my initial team. Certainly it was important last year and will be when 11-13 gets here. My initial draft teams contain a number of DPP def/mid and fwd/mid keepers and rookies in the DEF and FWD lines but to make use of them initally I am considering drafting L. Brown and Zorko in the MIDS to establish the links. Is this a bit of a waste?

    If I ignored the DPP links, I would put L. Brown in DEF and Zorko in FWD therefore enabling me to draft 2 of say Clifton, Horsely, McDonald, Miles etc in the MIDs making a much better looking midfield probably making the backline and forward line look a bit better as well.

    What do you think?

    • Without getting into specifics (can go on all day about DPP!), it gives us even more flexibilty in the way that we don’t need to have them in our teams to actually benefit from players with DPP status.

      There are a number of ways you can go about utilising DPP, which I think is great for the game. You can use the Link method (which we should all be familiar with from last season), which won’t be as important as last year (only 3 bye rounds now), but is still helpful nonetheless, especially if you have have two rookies linked, given their unreliable job security and form.

      You can also use another method where you load up you mids with B/M and M/F, then using DPP, switch them into either DEF and FWD and effectively upgrade a rookie from that line into a premium midfielder.

      Or, you can simply make a well-rounded team and use the magic of DPP as you see fit to deal with each specific situation.

      So to answer your question in a broad sense – there is no right answer. DPP is so flexible that you can use it any way you like, it all depends on your chosen (warning – buzz word coming) structure.

      • ..will go with the two rookies linked idea, which is my gut feeling. Thanks for the advice

  • As mentioned above, it is possible to go donut free by picking R/F or R/M players. However, most of these DPP Ruckman are unlikely to be in their team’s best 22 (and Roughead is unlikely to play a full season).

    So does anyone believe it is actually worth stocking up on these DPP Ruckman in the hope they are still playing in the bye rounds?? Maybe safer to cop 2 donuts!

    • I think that’s what it has come down to – with such poor options given Ruck/Forward status this year it is nowhere near worth it.

      m0nty added a comment on that article later, which basically said that CD’s failure to grant players like Kreuzer and Ryder R/F eligibility basically killed any hope of pulling off his method and avoiding any donuts.

      We have at least 2 donuts coming, basically.

  • Just quickly while im thinking about it, just playing around with some numbers trying to come up with a formula for the bye rounds – i see most people are thinking along the lines of 8-11-11. The problem starts with that, too much pressure on w1 and 2 of the bye. I think you need to look at different starting numbers like 8-9-13 or 7-9/10-13/14 and start trading your w3 byes after w1 to your other lines to strengthen them and protect against donuts. I’m just working through it at the moment and haven’t tested it with a structure so not sure how it will hold up particularly in the rucks where 2 trades will be used. I’m not looking into structures etc too much atm more just player research but i thought i would put it out there so if anyone can elaborate on it or find the flaws go ahead.

    The theory behind this strategy is you will be looking 2 weeks ahead so player selection will be critical, but thats the name of the game.

  • I think they need to keep DT simple.

  • Has anyone thought about the difficulty posed by starting the Sydney derby one week before the other games?

    If you have a shortlist of three players for your final bench forward spot, say Treloar, Saad and Rowe and Saad is your preferred choice, and you don’t lock in Treloar and then Saad and Rowe don’t play that first round, you’ve missed out on Treloar and then have to pick someone you don’t really want. It could be really frustrating.

  • i wonder if VS reads all this stuff and alters it a bit before feb 1?, more dpp players etc

  • Just seen this on AFL’s website:
    “Sign up for Toyota AFL Dream Team Assistant Coach and get the full player list, including positions, prices and the 2012 Team Picker. Register your interest here: dreamteam.afl.com.au”

  • Got on it late this year, is it unlimited trades until round 4?